Would you prefer to see existing community and cultural facilities upgraded or new facilities constructed?

over 6 years ago
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To provide the community with an idea of what might be possible in terms of community and cultural facilities improvement in Springwood, Ecodesign Architects have developed two options for upgrade. Fundamentally, option A involves upgrade of existing facilities on the Civic Centre/Library site while option B proposes the construction of new facilities on the Council owned carpark south of the Town Square. Alternatively, a combination of both options may be considered as a plausible way forward.

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This consultation has concluded.

  • Redacted user about 10 years ago
    I do not want either of the options presented in the information booklet. Maintain the buildings we already have and make improvements like the installation of tiered seating and air-conditioning. While there are no monies available for basics, the Council should spend very conservatively on non-essential things.
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    • Jackie8 about 10 years ago
      The Civic Centre precinct should be preserved (with retro unpgrade) as this is a heritage precinct. The CC is a fully functioning multi purpose building............new options do not take that into consideration. It is a community facility for the entire community not just one sector. Furthermore,this project has the capacity to bankrupt an already cash-strapped council who can ill afford to take on another large project. Whatever happened to the performance space in the cultural centre?
    • peaceful1 about 10 years ago
      I also do not agree with either of the options. Council have cleverly not given a third option. Are Council going to have an open forum to allow people to speak out seeing as we now have 'an artists impression' of the rebuilding of our town. How true are artists impressions - there are apparently 3 interested parties in building a supermarket yet we only have options A and B. Be open Council and let Springwood folk have a further meeting. Not everyone has access to computers or are able to go to the Library and put pen to paper. Let peoples voices be heard so you can stand there and reply rather than sitting behind desks reading responses and still doing what you see 'Springwood residents deserve".
  • 1234 about 10 years ago
    New facilities constructed (Option B) after the existing upgrade (Option A) is complete...we need it all....it is 2010, not 1960. Build for the future, so we can stengthen our community not preserve antiquated ugly spaces that do not serve the community needs. Braemar is beautiful and very Springwood, so I like that it is part of the upgrade of existing facilities plan....I also loved reading the brochure sent in the mail.
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    • Jackie8 about 10 years ago
      Do you like the rate increase and the money already wasted on the STP? And the only way council can afford what 1234 wants is to sell public assets to the likes of Woolworths or Coles who are two of the proponents waiting in the wings to get the okay.
  • JanO about 10 years ago
    Neither of these expensive options is vaguely acceptable. I hate to think how much rate-payers' money has been wasted on this new exercise of having these detailed plans drawn up, producing glossy brochures and then the mail-out to residents. We can add to that the cost of all the studies that have been done to date. After several years of this sort of spending and all the collected evidence suggesting a modest upgrade of existing facilities is what the community wants, all we have now is yet another attempt to foist a public/private partnership on us disguised in these two over-the-top options. The cost of all of these attempts to make a very undemocratic process look democratic could have upgraded our civic centre and improved library facilities - ie we would have had the material upgrades, but all we have are studies.
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    • pejay about 10 years ago
      I agree with JanO, to much money wasted on plans,brochures, surveys,etc. The council has very little money for maintainance, let alone new projects and we don't want another big supermarket.Upgrade the present facilities and it will serve the commmunity well.
  • ner about 10 years ago
    I agree Springwood facilities need updating and would like to see Option B implemented. Why shouldn't we have first class and up to date amenities. The ones we have are old and outdated. We need to look to the future and provide facilities for a growing community.
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    • BuzzardMongrel about 10 years ago
      As per the majority of people, I did not want to lose the Southern views and village feel of Springwood however I was actually quite surprised how good Option "B" is. Well done.
    • WOODTAIL about 10 years ago
      These plans look like the railway workshops around Redfern.We can have what you want with upgrades to our current Civic Center without selling our souls to the Big business world..Loosing our Public Land and oh what a view we would have with option B a tunnel vision so low down you will be looking at the base of the trees across the road . Great..... NOT WHAT I WANT FOR SPRINGWOOD
  • S O'Sullivan about 10 years ago
    Option B is cramped and crowded and does not give the Neighbourhood Centre as much space as Option A. Option B takes away the vista we enjoy to the National Park and also takes away the space used by the Ivy Market. Option B also opens up the loss of the Civic Centre precinct to Woolworths or Coles for a supermarket complex which will in turn ruin Springwood.The population in this area is not expanding at a great rate it is aging therefore we require perhaps a scaled down version of Option A. Council are too concerned with meeting everyone's wish lists at a time when they are asking us to agree to increased rates.
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    • peaceful1 about 10 years ago
      Neither Option A or B in any way beautifies Springwood, just turns us into another Penrith, Blacktown, P'matta.Why do people move up here if that is what they want. If people choose Option B, then this leaves the area of the demolished Civic Centre and Library open for an ENORMOUS Supermarket complex which on the pamphlet Council has cleverly, in small print, noted as possible development, retail/supermarket. Why don't plainly state Coles, Woolworths development?
  • flashpants about 10 years ago
    Definitely do NOT want to see Option B as it opens up for a big group supermarket. The problem with this in the longer term is LOSS OF RETURN OF MONIES TO THE LOCAL COMMUNITY. Local business supports local employment AND AS WELL it supports putting that money back into the LOCAL community. Woolworths and Coles profits go to shareholders who live where...in Hong Kong or Rose Bay? Aside from that, how many shops are still vacant in Winmalee? And the rent that Coles charges PHEW! Also, the winmalee coles now attracts a massive increase in car traffic compared to when it was BiLo (massive increase!). It is enough that winmalee has a coles, we do not have the $ within the community nor population to support another large supermarket and the competing businesses that the large supermarkets would want to rent premises to also. Anyway, I want a small coop or local supermarket that lets me refill my own reusable containers, and gives me product in minimal packaging. I want an environmentally friendly LOCAL SHOP to be encouraged to support environmentally responsible citizens. Not a mass marketed supermarket. I think council are missing this opportunity.Why do you not provide some funding to the local existing supermarket to create a market niche instead, an australian benchmark in environmentally responsible shopping, and then renovate the civic centre and library.
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    • Redacted user about 10 years ago
      Flashpants - How much rent does Coles charge? How do shop vacancies in Springwood compare those in Winmalee. Some real data please.
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      • Redacted user about 10 years ago
        Anyone else interested in commercial rents in Springwood might like to consider the following which is part of a report listed on the BMCC website as "Stage 1 - Re: Springwood Town Centre Economic Advice - Stage 1"Recent commercial/retail leases in Springwood include:148 Macquarie Rd (commercial) 220sqm - $382/sqm6/107 Macquarie Road (retail) 58sqm - $423/sqm1/153-157 Macquarie Rd (retail) 77sqm - $571/sqm5c/127 Macquarie Rd Arcade 53.6sqm - $396/sqmShop 1, 119 Macquarie Rd (commercial above ground) 58sqm - $724/sqmSource: Local Real Estate Agents – Springwood Town Centre 2007• Commercial/retail properties in springwood are expensive when compared to the other centres on the Blue Mountains and broadly achieve rentals in the order of $400 - $700/sqm. Rentals are excessive and should realistically be in the order of $300/sqm.• Historically rentals have been high in Springwood and this trend looks to persist.• Such high rentals contribute to significant vacancies in the town centre.• State bank commercial building at 148 Macquarie Road (220sqm building) recently leased for $7,000 per month excluding GST = $382/sqm.• It was noted by several agents that the accommodation of a national chain supermarket would assist in revitalising the Town Centre. One agent was of the understanding that several years ago Coles were interested in locating in Springwood however were not prepared to pay the rent that was being asked.• Recent retail rental property totalling 58sqm at 6/107 Macquarie Road – leased for $423/sqm +GST.
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        • WOODTAIL about 10 years ago
          Could you tell me how many shop vacancies in the main street?
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          • Redacted user about 10 years ago
            Sorry, I don't have any information about vacancies which is why I posed the question to Flashpants. Perhaps someone from SOS would have this information and could let us both know.
        • S O'Sullivan about 10 years ago
          This all commenced because Woolworths had the rug pulled out from under them by Coles with the purchase of Winmalee. BMCC changed their planning regulations to accommodate the complex at Winmalee because they recognised there was no suitable space in Springwood to accommodate such a development. Woolworth's plans were before council when Coles bought the complex so Woolworths sought to build in Springwood. The only space available is that owned by THE COMMUNITY! I stress community as opposed to BMCC who appear to think they are above the community not servants of. The rent in retail complexes are controlled by the anchor store and you will find that the tills of the other businesses are linked to whomever the anchor is. Some accountants in Springwood are of the opinion that a retail complex in the town will cause rents to rise to match what the complex charges.
  • Anina1 about 10 years ago
    I could not possibly go with option B after looking at Council's extremely poor performance in the fiasco that was to be the new Springwood pool. Much better to stick with upgrading existing buildings. However the sad fact, as others have noted is that Council seems hell bent on having another large supermarket chain set up in Springwood whether we want it or not.As for the library, all the refurbishing in the world is not much help unless the librarians have sufficient funds to purchase books and materials. The idea of this new space with the large atrium flooded with natural light is a perfect example of wasted space. People don't go to a library to enjoy natural light but to use the facilities, electronic and hard copy. Floor space is critical. This plan sacrifices floor space for building design features.
  • theorangekombi about 10 years ago
    One of the "community facilities" that I appreciate the most in Springwood is the Art School Square, marked "town square" on the option B plans.This is a great spot to stop and take a rest with kids, eat an icecream, meet people etc. Importantly it fronts on the street so you really feel part of the action.Can we expand and improve this area into a more of a town plaza? Having traveled through Spain and South America plazas are the focal point of each town (no matter how small) and day to day community interaction.Instead of making it a thoroughfare to rarely used concrete "civic square" in option B, we could have improved plantings (possibly even lawn), public seating and modify the retail beside the chemist/westpac to encourage cafes.just a thought.....
  • peaceful2 about 10 years ago
    I'm not sure how these comments are ultimately utilised in making any decisions but regardless, I offer the following.One, if there is to be a new major supermarket and associated specialty shops then that development should occur in the middle of town, ie. the N or S carpark sites. Such a development on the edge of town, as per option A, creates too much potential harm to the activity of the main street.Two, I don't think Springwood's biggest problem is a lack of community facilities,I can't see any deficiency which can't be overcome with gradual refurbishment of the existing civic centre. The problem is that the town's commercial architecture is unattractive and difficult to access. Given that the existing commercial landlords won't contibute anything to improve the place and are not offering any thoughts on the topic, I'm happy to see a major retailer which is prepared to generate ideas and spend money on the town become part of the business mix.
  • greentown about 10 years ago
    Why are we even talking about this still, the community has spoken. No to developments that allows big companies to come to town. Has anyone been to Winmalee recently? its like going to Penrith, there is no community feeling what so ever.Our council needs to stop putting so much stress on the community. constantly opening up the avenues for woolies, coles, Dan Murphy's ect to ruin our towns. People have better things to do like opening up more Co-ops and the like, other than always fighting their council to stop such developments. No to this development and any other such development in the future.
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    • Redacted user about 10 years ago
      I haven't noticed a lack of community spirit out Winmalee way. A sense of community means different things to different people, and is not defined by the sort of shops they use.
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      • greentown about 10 years ago
        I did not mean to offend anyone, i am just comparing the new shopping center to the old one. I thought back in the days of the court yard etc had more community interaction. My opinion only. I like Winmalee, just not the plaza.
  • MikeParker about 10 years ago
    To me this looks like a three card trick.Choose Option A and you get a Supermarket on the Southern Car Park, Multi-Story Parking on the Northern Car Park with units on top.Choose Option B and you get inadequate cramped New Facilities on the Sothern Car Park, Multi-Story Parking with Units on the Northern Car Park and a Supermarket on the Civic Centre Site.Don’t Choose Option A or B and you get a Supermarket on the Southern Car Park, Multi-Story Parking on the Northern Car Park with units on top as the council is very short of money.
  • MikeParker about 10 years ago
    The first thing to say is that Option B does not look to be viable. In the documents on the council website it states that the minimum area that is acceptable to the councillors for the library is 1850m2. Option B does not meet this requirement.The second priority is a new purpose built performance centre with seating for up to 600. Both Option A and Option B do not meet this requirement.As highlighted in the information package there is little or no room for expansion (except upward) in Option B. Option B reduces the community facilities. The information pack states “Reduced flat floor venue for Ivy Markets, balls dances, etc”. There are so many problems with Option B that it is not seriously viable. Yes, we get new facilities but according to the information package it does not even replace what we have got now.
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    • Redacted user about 10 years ago
      BTW - The figures shown in the table on page 3 of "Proposed Special Variation to Rates 2010/2011 Facts Sheet 2" are correct. The amounts shown in the shaded cells are the sums of the amounts shown in the unshaded cells directly below.
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      • MikeParker about 10 years ago
        The Fact Sheet is now correct but my comments where made when the published fact sheet was incorrect. The figures for Council Commercial Buildings 1,710,408,318 and Council Operational Buildings 3,420,816,636 and the total percentage was shown as 199.96.The time and date on the document I downloaded was 9/4/2010 12:06:50 PM and the current document is 9/4/2010 11:09:54 AM.Someone at council may be able to explain why a document with a time an hour later was uploaded with errors but that was the published document on the website.
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        • Redacted user about 10 years ago
          Just saw your reply and checked that table again and this time I got the version that you downloaded originally. There seems to be something wrong with the BMCC website. I wonder which information we can trust.
  • abell about 10 years ago
    The Council recently commissioned Argyle Research to produce the Springwood Cultural and Community Facilities and Services – Needs Analysis. This report is a comprehensive review of the cultural and community facilities in Springwood, particularly from the perspective of recommendations for enhancement. The author of the report consulted with eighteen community organisations and twelve representatives of the different departments or agencies associated with the Blue Mountains City Council. The report is available to be read on the Blue Mountains Council website. The report states:- “....stakeholders were strongly of the view that all major cultural and community services should be located on one site – preferably, the existing Civic Centre Site”.The report emphasised you cannot relocate the beautiful, historic Braemar building. Therefore, there was really no choice in the matter. The precinct remains where it is. The Council retains a firm of consultants to inform the community the cultural precinct should remain as is, but pushes forward with Option B which involves a complete relocation of the facilities. All of the Council stakeholders and every other community interest group surveyed, did not want to break up the cultural precinct. Why do we persist with Option B? Is it anything to do with Woolworths saying they are only interested in coming to Sprinwood if they are given the Civic Centre site?The cultural needs analysis found no compelling reason why the existing infrastructure could not be upgraded. The report identified an obvious need for a make over. There was no recommendation advanced by Argyle Research we should knock down the Civic Centre and start again.The cultural needs report clearly identified and recommended what now is being represented as Option C. Of greater importance is whether Option A is to be achieved with or without the necessity of building a supermarket (but not Woolworths as they won’t go to Site B). If it is, this creates a whole raft of new problems which have to be considered before further evaluation, particularly transport into and out of Springwood. A basic tenet of retail shopping is to promote accessibility and convenience as well as mobility for our aged community and convenient car parking for shoppers. The Winmalee Shopping Centre is able to provide both because there is a significant amount of flat land available to build the shopping centre on. The same considerations do not apply for Springwood nor can they because of the geographical constraints.
  • WOODTAIL about 10 years ago
    THE COUNCIL'S OWN NEEDS AND ANALYSIS REPORT STATES THAT THE PRESENT FACILITIES ARE STRUCTURALLY SOUND, SO WHY THIS MANIC DRIVE TO MEGA DEVELOPMENT?THE FACILITIES CAN BE BROUGHT UP TO STANDARD IF NEEDED BY GOVERNMENT GRANTS.HOW SERIOUSLY HAS THIS COUNCIL SOUGHT GRANTS FOR THE WARD THREE AREA AND WHAT IS ITS RECORD IN SECURING SUCH GRANTS?COUNCILOR MYLES SUGGESTS IN THE GAZETTE THAT WE CAN HAVE IT ALL IF WE GO WITH OPTIONS A OR B. THERE IS ALWAYS A COST.KATOOMBA CULTURAL CENTRE HAS REQUIRED A $6.5 MILLION COUNCIL INPUT ALTHOUGH IT IS A COMMERCIAL RELATIONSHIP .IT IS A SAD REFLECTION THIS COUNCIL HAS NOT HEEDED ITS OWN STUDIES. THIS PROJECT HAS ALREADY COST ABOUT $350,000AND WHAT HAS BEEN ACHIEVED? A COUNCIL THAT SEEKS AN INCREASE IN RATES TO FUND BASIC SERVICES SHOULD NOT EVEN BE CONTEMPLATING ENTERING INTO A PPP ON SUCH MAMMOTH PROJECTS. ADD TO THAT THE FRAGILE STATE OF THE WORLD ECONOMY. SUCH DEVELOPMENT COULD ONLY BE FUNDED BY PRIVATE DEVELOPERS AND IN THIS CONTEXT THAT MEANS A SUPER MARKET/RETAIL COMPLEX. APART FROM THE RISK OF FINANCIAL BLOW OUTS THERE IS ALSO THE SOCIAL COST. EXPERIENCE SHOWS IT WOULD SUCK THE AIR OUT OF THE MAIN STREET AND DESTROY ITS SOCIAL CHARACTER.NOT TO MENTION TRAFFIC PROBLEMS, ALIENATION OF COMMUNITY LAND AND LOSS OF VIEWS THERE HAS BEEN NO DEMAND FOR THIS FROM THE COMMUNITY.  QUITE THE OPPOSITE.EVERY POSSIBLE INDICATOR SUGGESTS THAT THERE IS OVERWHELMING OPPOSITION TO THIS PROJECT.QUITE SIMPLY THERE IS NO NEED FOR SUCH A DEVELOPMENT. SPRINGWOOD IS VIBRANT, IT IS UNIQUE IN FACT THE PROJECT SHOULDNEVER HAVE EVEN SURVIVED TO THIS POINT.
  • Art Appreciation almost 9 years ago
    In relationship to Braemar Gallery. Part of an important era showing Springwood's growth. The house is still original - people are constantly coming in to look and delight in the interior as it now stands.Braemar Gallery would be best served by staying there and having the extra rooms. It is a well known gallery with Sydney people coming up to visit and view the exhibitions. Galleries are special places and they allow people to show their expressions through their art works. Art Works cannot be displayed in an open cold lifeless area. If it was moved into an open forum surrounded by glass windows and reflections of the outside, with the constant movement of people then it would be a total loss. People travel all over the world to visit galleries - they talk about them and discuss what they show. By keeping Braemar as individual and special you also keep Springwood as something different with a little "Old World Charm". By all means have an open area joining where people can sit and drink a coffee and chat, but that's not the reason why people travel to visit a gallery, or why Artisits decide to show in a special gallery.Why do what everbody else is doing, brass, chrome, glass and open expensive wasted cold space. Think of cost options. Easy to waste half the money on continual discussions when all your doing is going around in circles.NO to major Supermarkets or liquor stores - given half a year of being there they will just keep pushing their way into our delightful township and ruin what we have here.After all, lets ask ourselves, "How many supermarkets do we really need?" They are vitual clones -They end up doing what they want regardless....With all the discussion and planing that went on, Winmalee doesn't offer undercover parking - hot days parents still have to place children into stinking hot cars. The covering that they have now provided still isn't sufficient considering that they have all that undercovered section underneath the building. Elderly people either have parking close by or still have to walk a distance and then get into a hot car - When raining, people in wheel chairs end up soaked totally as the walk from the shops to the covered parking area is still open to all the elements. NOT GOOD ENOUGH... NO TO BRAEMAR MOVING - NO TO WOOLWORTHS OR COLES MOVING INTO THE MAIN AREAS OF SPRINGWOOD. As my Father use to say "There is no such thing as a free lunch- you will have to pay something some where down the line, it might not be money it could be your integrity."